Perry Nuttal

Can freethinkers exist in a material universe? Some Atheists say freewill cannot exist in a material universe, but freethinking can. To say free will doesn't exist but freethinking does seems a bit of an oxymoron to me.

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Call me Z Profile
Call me Z answered

Do you consider this universe “material”? If you do, as our meager senses render it material, and gather that there are freethinkers currently among us, then the answer is obvious. The mind is the first and last bastion of freedom.

Freewill exists, in the context that we have the ability to follow the path we choose, express our creativity or opinions, and each pursue our brand of happiness (at least in most countries).

Where a conflict exists, is when the concept of our freewill comes up against predestination (fate), or a divine omniscience. These are counter to the landscape necessary to permit true freewill to play out. I personally have as yet uncovered no cause to give credence to either of the latter. 

Freethinking demonstration complete. 

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Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
So may we consider that "Feelings" of a meaningful we both share . . . regardless of Theist or Atheist . . . .
In the end, it is usually the Theist that says my life has meaning to God . . . I would say "Well you can't know this . . right?" and they "Usually" say, "No. But I believe it and FEEL it does."

I can honestly say, as a believer I had strong emotions during church services . . . many called it the "Presence of the Holy Spirit" . . . such an intense "Feeling" is what keeps many Theist believing in the concept of "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am in the Midst."
That is one of the reasons people raise their hands up in church . . they expressing the intense emotion and "FEELING" . . . I might add that the energy given off by a large group of collection of people all focused on one thing can get very emotional . . . no God required.
Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
Hi PN,
I forgot to tell you that I will be looking at that article in regards to your reply - "This article is written from a person who has been both atheist and believer, as most atheists support their non belief by demanding evidence for the existence of God, rarely do you get atheists who have a believe in other supernatural things like heaven or ghosts as it would weaken their position on the demand for evidence."
Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
I couldn't help noticing that many things you say are repeated . . . I don't mean reiterated . . . I mean a complete copy/paste redundancy . . .
Make sure if you siting someone else's work you are putting them in quotes and at least providing context that it is someone else's intellectual property . . . okee dokee
Darik Majoren Profile
Darik Majoren answered

"Can freethinkers exist in a material universe? Some Atheists say freewill cannot exist in a material universe, but freethinking can. To say free will doesn't exist but freethinking does seems a bit of an oxymoron to me."

Perhaps it only seems oxymoronic because you lack Free Thought . . .

Seeing the entirety of the information is much different then an already predetermined course of thinking within a religious construct. If you were indoctrinated from your young atheist self (as a baby) to believe in only X, and you are constantly bombarded praise for aligning your thinking with your indoctrinators and you get negative responses for NOT aligning yourself, what real Choice do you have.

You are who you are because of three factors . . Genetics, Environment and Experiences . . . Your developing brain creates neuron pathways and chemical productions based on ALL of these . . . Genetics we really cannot do to much about, and we are too young to really effect our Environment (What you eat, breath and energy we are exposed to) . . . So our Experiences (both good and bad), determine how our minds will be set.  This is why people who tend to grow up in different regions adopt the religion of that particular culture OR are open to Supernatural claims being a valid reasoning method.

So regardless of what I am "Free" to think about, I am subject to a Pattern of behavior that was Molded from infancy to young adult . . . Can we retrain our brain . . Not without INCREDIBLE difficulty. Our subconscious will always be working against us to achieve the chemicals it want to feed the brain as much of the good chemicals it wants.

People with their corpus callosum cut (due to extreme Seizures) can have the Right side of their brain develop an entirely different Free Will then the Left side. To the point where even one side was a Theist and the other was an atheist. Two Spheres of consciousness are created . . . If the consciousness is the soul, did this person get another soul?

Free thought means we are open to evidence proving there is a God. If evidence was so compelling in favor of there being a God, and Free thinking Atheist will believe in that God . . . Ask Don, ask any other Atheist, and they will say yes. With that in mind are you open to the possibility that there is No God . . . . I have yet to have a Theist say "Yes" . . . Because they are not free to think in this manner.

With "your" Free thought, give a listen to this:

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Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
Your concept of Free Thought is flawed. For most Atheist who where Theist, it represents the ability to think "Freely" about a thing.
For Example . . . Say I want to learn a bit more about Islam, but I want to do it from two perspectives. I ask someone whom has done a more extensive study from the outside like Dom. I am presented with raw data . . . then I ask someone from the inside like Just Ice. He is all to willing to share his belief system. Not only is he happy to do it, but has interpreted the "Sacred" texts in a way that is presented as a religion of peace. He is a believer. So I now have to perspectives to "Freely" think about . . .
Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
Now lets add a change to MY perspective in asking for theirs . . . Let's Say I am a born again Christian. The whole time I am listening to Dom speak about Islam in raw data form, I am boxed in by beliefs to downgrade his information. He is obviously an atheist, and is presenting his views in a cold clinical format to pull yet another deity down as a man made claim. His information has been NOT received well because or preconceived mind garbage. Now I listen to Just Ice, talk about his religion, and can't help thinking that this is one of the false prophets the Bible was talking about in the end times. I have no respect for his religion because he is the enemy in the spiritual world, and Satan has created religion to lead men astray from the truth . . . from MY TRUTH.
Free thought is not like free will . . it is the ability to parse the raw data without a belief system to refract the information coming in.
Darik Majoren
Darik Majoren commented
Now I get, the immediate response is that we DO have preconceived belief systems in that we are not open to a "Belief Claim" where the supernatural is in question . . . but you couldn't be more wrong.

Over time we do get conditioned to the same old Claim "I can Prove God exists" only to have it be the same old shtick learned in the church or in a Bible class, that OF COURSE makes sense to someone who already believes, but never really has any demonstrable evidence and Faith ends up being the medium of which their belief sustains it's longevity.
I really would love for actual evidence to the existence of a God . . . . but so far, there just isn't any.

Also, before you stake your claim in agnosticism . . . remember there are a myriad of things we cannot prove "Doesn't Exist" . . . not all of them Gods, and most can be imagined up in a few minutes . . . once you decline your skepticism for the supernatural claims, you leave yourself open to endless naivety and superstitious ignorance.
Tom  Jackson Profile
Tom Jackson answered

Seems like it.

Freethought (or "free thought")[1] is a philosophical viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or other dogma. In particular, freethought is strongly tied with rejection of traditional religious belief.[1][2][3] The cognitive application of freethought is known as "freethinking", and practitioners of freethought are known as "freethinkers".[1][4] The term first came into use in the 17th century in order to indicate people who inquired into the basis of traditional religious beliefs.

---Right out of Wikipedia.

Joyce Hall Profile
Joyce Hall answered

I agree with u. Its kind of hard to have free thinkers unless those free thinkers have free will to do so.

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